Violence – Futility – Violence – Futility . . .

Fiona Uncategorized

Bushfire Bill gets it:

When I was watching 60s war movies with my Dad as a little’n, I used to ask him why the Germans bothered with armies and stuff, when they could just blow up bombs in London and terrify the populace that way.

He talked to me about “rules”.

Later on, after I grew up a little, I thought that if The State (l’Etat?) guarantees more or less 100% security, then anyone who took even 1% off that, was defying the State’s authority and was thus undermining the other 99% of the State.

In my mature(r) years, I have thought that if WE bomb THEM, then why can’t THEY bomb US?

The product sold to us in the West of highly trained fighter jocks, 30,000 feet above the fray, dropping laser guided bombs on hapless and defenceless targets, who then die terrible deaths with their bloody, eviscerated intestines wrapped around the severed, eyeless, lipless heads of their children, was always false advertising.

We sit in our fighter jets playing win-win video games.

They arm themselves with Kalashnikovs and retaliate against our homeland.

Yet the former is moral and surgical. The latter excites worldwide horror and revulsion.

It’s not win-win anymore. The targets have learned how to be the aggressors.

Can we really blame them for retaliating in the best way they know how?Can we condemn them for bringing home to us, in our supposedly secure cities, just what it is like to have random murder perpetrated on our citizens and loved ones?

I’m as horrified as the next person by what happened today. I’m revolted and disgusted about Paris.

But can I blame “the enemy” for giving back to “us” some of what we have done to “them”?

In my heart of hearts, I can’t.

I hate it, but you can’t say we weren’t warned of the consequences of our actions.

Can someone tell me I’m wrong? And if I am, where I’m wrong?

As does Leone (not to mention every Pubster who has been commenting since earlier today):

You are right, and I agree with everything you say.

Tonight New Matilda gave us this –
(IMAGE: Moyan Brenn, Flickr) Paris Attacks Highlight Western Vulnerability, And Our Selective Grief And Outrage
https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/14/paris-attacks-highlight-western-vulnerability-and-our-selective-grief-and-outrage/

It has attracted quite a bit of ‘how dare you say this right now’ comment. But it is absolutely right, and there is no ‘good’ time to point out how hypocritical we are, weeping over one outrage and ignoring another, just as horrifying, because those killed or injured are not white, or European, or Australian.

And Kaye Lee from AIMM:

Does anyone truly believe that violence can lead the world to a better place?

There can be only one reason for the attacks in Paris and that is to draw the West into increased military action in the Middle East, and from the sounds of it, that has been the call from many people today.

To those whose answer to the bombs and bullets is bigger bombs and more bullets, I would say you are being manipulated in the same way as the ignorant deluded handful of people who carried out these attacks.

How can you claim to be on the side of right when you use the same methods – go to a foreign country and kill innocent people?

How can you speak of national security and protecting your borders as you invade other countries?

How can you claim to be protecting human rights as you bomb hospitals?

How can you claim to be fighting for freedom as you lock up the people fleeing from oppression?

We have removed countless despots and dictators but rarely has it gone well. We install corrupt governments or leave when it becomes politically inconvenient to stay and leave people to cope with the mess we leave behind. We train and arm paramilitary groups and then abandon them and show surprise when they team up with others we don’t care for.

The armaments industry is a huge global business with no ethics. Defence forces are empire builders who demand hundreds of billions to ‘keep us safe’ as they spark aggression around the world.

If you kill people, others will want revenge. Where does it stop?

Is humanity capable of civilisation? Capable of tolerance? Capable of accepting the responsibility of caring for and nurturing all children, educating them, and protecting the environment so they can have a future?

Billy Connelly used to do a skit about his mother belting him for hitting his sister. Are we to respond to violence with violence and see ourselves as saviours?

Until we learn to respect each other and the planet we share, we are doomed to let those who would use us for their own power and profit pull the strings.

VIOLENCE BEGETS ONLY ONE THING – MORE VIOLENCE

Somehow, we – the beneficiaries of the West’s crusading, colonising, exploiting activities for so many centuries – have to resolve this hellish brew. As far as I’m concerned, however, Kaye Lee has nailed it:

Until we learn to respect each other and the planet we share, we are doomed to let those who would use us for their own power and profit pull the strings.

525 thoughts on “Violence – Futility – Violence – Futility . . .”

  1. http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/17/federal-police-search-home-for-documents-belonging-to-james-ashby also worth a look

    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/graham-perrett-pushes-indolent-afp-over-ashbygate,5150

    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/us-stunned-by-port-of-darwin-sale-to-chinese-20151116-gl0omf

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/17/turnbull-appropriates-labor-rhetoric-to-appear-fair-his-policies-tell-a-different-story

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11999544/France-swats-aside-EU-budget-rules-in-rearmament-blitz.html significant EU development

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/france-intensify-airstrikes-isis-syria-francois-hollande

    http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/11/16/18/15/union-protests-police-questioning

    http://www.afr.com/news/economy/new-normal-growth-at-3pc-would-blow-5b-hole-in-budget-20151114-gkz8yn

  2. Hey pubsters

    BB has invited me over to the Pub. Reminiscing the heady days of the Ashby and Slipper saga

  4. Hear, hear, Victoria, likewise.

    Can I get you drunk first, or should we get down to business?

  7. BB – I would have been able to look up some reference to that, but I’m afraid I have marmalade all over my files.

    HI Victoria!

  8. Victoria,

    Pretty good, though the last six months have been full-on. I’m beginning to sense clear water ahead, though.

    I hope all is well with you and yours.

  10. Fiona

    Has been a hectic year on the home front. OH is helping son with a rebuild. Very challenging. Youngest daughter has just finished her last year 12 exam, and middle daughter has one more assessment to hand into to Swinburne tomorrow and she is finished for the semester!

  14. Aguirre

    Well at least Abbott was dumped as PM. Now Turnbull is enjoying popularity mainly because he isnt Abbott. Go figure!!

  16. Victoria,

    If you would like something a little more stimulating than your pepsi max, do try this little number . . .

  17. I liked Ashby’s defence. It was pretty much, “Whoa, what’s this all about? I thought we’d all agreed I got away with it?”

  20. Fiona

    So refreshing!! In light of the mini heat wave we are having this week here in Melbourne. 🙂

  21. Leone,

    Working on the assumption that scrott is not an only child, I bet you anything that if there was trouble among the kids he’d always be the one to point the finger and say:

    “S/He started it!

  25. Victoria

    Welcome to the Pub. You’ll find even the public bar patrons are impeccably behaved at this establishment 😆

  26. But the rich do it really really tough.

    All that time spent totting up their assets.

    Not to mention the time AND effort AND money involved in evading tax oops avoiding tax oops arranging their affairs (no, no, no – not those affairs – moi nevah discusses them with anyone other than these absolutely brill family lawyers – Charlotte told me all about them . . . ).

    Plus keeping track of all those trusts and charities . . .

    Spare a thought (and a GST hike) for these downtrodden rich people. You know they deserve it.

  36. leonetwo

    The Slipper scandal goes back to April 2012. Over 3 1/2 years ago. No one has been held to account for the conspiracy to bring down the speaker and the govt at the time. Can we dare to dream that finally those responsbile will be held to account?

  37. Victoria

    It’s a faint dream, but if we are very lucky, something might come of it. It had better be more than just seeing Ashby pushed under a bus though.

  38. leonetwo

    My hope is that the likes of Brough, Pyne et al are held to account for their conduct. And in turn, Turnbull is left holding the can for his poor decision in garnering their support for him getting the leadership.

    On that note, night all. Appreciate the warm welcome by everyone.

  40. CTar1

    I suspect closer to the response when a Russian was kidnapped in Beirut back in the days when kidnapping westerners was all the rage.

    They tracked down the group responsible , kidnapped the patriarch castrated him and dumped the body on a pile of rubbish at a busy intersection. For some reason the Russkiy was released and no more kidnapped.

    They are offering a $50 mill reward for information so they are not scrimping on reward money .

  41. My niece who works in Paris has lost two colleagues in the attack. She wonders whether we are being dragged into a war we didn’t want. The mood is one of sadness.

  43. In what could turn out to be a bizarre turn of events, Abbott may yet prove to be the ALP’s saviour. Early days yet, but indications are that Abbott is trying to follow the Rudd playbook – agitate against the guy who replaced him, pull some strings to cause instability, keep up his own media profile, all the while professing that he has no further political ambitions. The two factors in the ALP’s favour are:

    1. Abbott has this insane delusion that he’s popular and that people would actually want him back. All he has to do is discredit Turnbull and those around him and something something, and success! First half he can manage, but he’ll never be welcomed back, he’d get a worse reception than Rudd by a long way.

    2. He’s got a lot of material to work with regarding Turnbull. We all know about all that stuff, and it may be that the re-opening of the Ashbygate files is just the start of it. Turnbull’s reputed charisma would be no match for Abbott’s machinations, no match at all.

    Because Abbott’s a wrecker, with nothing positive to contribute, the net result can only be a Liberal Party in disarray.

    Turnbull’s other problem is that, while he is fending off Abbott from one side, he’s also fighting claims from the other side that he’s just Abbott in a nicer suit. It’s just a niggle, but it does restrict his political movement a bit, and reduces some of his options.

    An election isn’t all that far off, so Abbott’s timeframe is limited. If he’s going to cause any serious disruption, it should happen early next year at the latest. He knows that all he has to do is knock a couple of points off the party’s 2PP and the backbenchers will get shaky again. It’s not them Abbott’s after though, he’s working on Turnbull’s legendary bad judgement. Under pressure, Turnbull could make some big mistakes.

    This all works in the ALP’s favour. We already know Abbott can’t drive Shorten out. He’s tried and tried, and Shorten’s still there with a unified party behind him. Don’t worry about the PPM or approval ratings, Shorten’s got a stable team backing him and that counts for a lot. He sailed through the TURC business with hardly a scratch – it would have destroyed a few others, I’d bet.

    The best scenario is Abbott destroys Turnbull and fights the next election against Shorten. It’s not exactly likely at the moment, but the second-best scenario – wounded Turnbull stumbles to next election – is on the cards, definitely.

  44. I never thought I’d ever be cheering for Tony Abbott, but I so very much want to see him challenge Turnbull and win.

  45. Worth keeping in mind also that all the Ashbygate stuff happened under Abbott’s leadership, and he never removed himself further from it than the claim that he had no direct knowledge. If he can find a way to tar Turnbull with it via leadership support from Brough, Roy etc, and still keep his own hands clean, I think we can officially describe Abbott’s relationship with the AFP as “unhealthy”.

  46. Aguirre,

    He’s got a lot of material to work with regarding Turnbull. We all know about all that stuff, and it may be that the re-opening of the Ashbygate files is just the start of it.

    . . . all the Ashbygate stuff happened under Abbott’s leadership, and he never removed himself further from it than the claim that he had no direct knowledge.

    He must have a few good mates in the AFP after being in such close quarters with them for a couple of years . . .

  48. I’m just going to allow myself a small measure of joy at seeing the correct, original meaning of the word ‘doubt’ employed. It’s seen so rarely these days. Thanks Gigilene.

  49. Mark Kenny tries to put a positive spin on Turnbull’s brief meeting with Obama.

    APEC: Malcolm Turnbull and Barack Obama hit it off, resist pressure for troops in Syria
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/apec-malcolm-turnbull-and-barack-obama-hit-it-off-resist-pressure-for-troops-in-syria-20151117-gl18hw.html

    Of course Turnbull has been invited to the White House. It’s what presidents do when a new leader comes along. Abbott was invited to the White House too, so was Julia Gillard. Photos of those occasions show very different reactions from Obama,

    Why is it our prime ministers seem to turn to gibbering heaps of compliant jelly when they meet US presidents? Turnbull echoed Harold Holt and his ‘All the way with LBJ’ here –

    Mr Turnbull pointedly sided with the White House, declaring Australia stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the US

  50. Abbott, whose only weapon is wrecking, is such a blight on democracy and representative government that I couldn’t cheer him on. Trouble-making does, however, give a nice sense of schadenfreude after all the Gillard government went through from the Rudd wrecking.

    Turnbull is infinitely more civilised as a spokesman, which is why he is enjoying a longish honeymoon after the five-year Abbott horror show. But essentially he offers no more than Abbott in governance. Apart from his part in destroying a major project for Australia’s future in the NBN, he has a pretty sorry history in business and politics. He is not as palpably unfit to be PM as Abbott was, but there are too many incidents of poor judgement to have any confidence in him.

Comments are closed.