Violence – Futility – Violence – Futility . . .

Fiona Uncategorized

Bushfire Bill gets it:

When I was watching 60s war movies with my Dad as a little’n, I used to ask him why the Germans bothered with armies and stuff, when they could just blow up bombs in London and terrify the populace that way.

He talked to me about “rules”.

Later on, after I grew up a little, I thought that if The State (l’Etat?) guarantees more or less 100% security, then anyone who took even 1% off that, was defying the State’s authority and was thus undermining the other 99% of the State.

In my mature(r) years, I have thought that if WE bomb THEM, then why can’t THEY bomb US?

The product sold to us in the West of highly trained fighter jocks, 30,000 feet above the fray, dropping laser guided bombs on hapless and defenceless targets, who then die terrible deaths with their bloody, eviscerated intestines wrapped around the severed, eyeless, lipless heads of their children, was always false advertising.

We sit in our fighter jets playing win-win video games.

They arm themselves with Kalashnikovs and retaliate against our homeland.

Yet the former is moral and surgical. The latter excites worldwide horror and revulsion.

It’s not win-win anymore. The targets have learned how to be the aggressors.

Can we really blame them for retaliating in the best way they know how?Can we condemn them for bringing home to us, in our supposedly secure cities, just what it is like to have random murder perpetrated on our citizens and loved ones?

I’m as horrified as the next person by what happened today. I’m revolted and disgusted about Paris.

But can I blame “the enemy” for giving back to “us” some of what we have done to “them”?

In my heart of hearts, I can’t.

I hate it, but you can’t say we weren’t warned of the consequences of our actions.

Can someone tell me I’m wrong? And if I am, where I’m wrong?

As does Leone (not to mention every Pubster who has been commenting since earlier today):

You are right, and I agree with everything you say.

Tonight New Matilda gave us this –
(IMAGE: Moyan Brenn, Flickr) Paris Attacks Highlight Western Vulnerability, And Our Selective Grief And Outrage
https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/14/paris-attacks-highlight-western-vulnerability-and-our-selective-grief-and-outrage/

It has attracted quite a bit of ‘how dare you say this right now’ comment. But it is absolutely right, and there is no ‘good’ time to point out how hypocritical we are, weeping over one outrage and ignoring another, just as horrifying, because those killed or injured are not white, or European, or Australian.

And Kaye Lee from AIMM:

Does anyone truly believe that violence can lead the world to a better place?

There can be only one reason for the attacks in Paris and that is to draw the West into increased military action in the Middle East, and from the sounds of it, that has been the call from many people today.

To those whose answer to the bombs and bullets is bigger bombs and more bullets, I would say you are being manipulated in the same way as the ignorant deluded handful of people who carried out these attacks.

How can you claim to be on the side of right when you use the same methods – go to a foreign country and kill innocent people?

How can you speak of national security and protecting your borders as you invade other countries?

How can you claim to be protecting human rights as you bomb hospitals?

How can you claim to be fighting for freedom as you lock up the people fleeing from oppression?

We have removed countless despots and dictators but rarely has it gone well. We install corrupt governments or leave when it becomes politically inconvenient to stay and leave people to cope with the mess we leave behind. We train and arm paramilitary groups and then abandon them and show surprise when they team up with others we don’t care for.

The armaments industry is a huge global business with no ethics. Defence forces are empire builders who demand hundreds of billions to ‘keep us safe’ as they spark aggression around the world.

If you kill people, others will want revenge. Where does it stop?

Is humanity capable of civilisation? Capable of tolerance? Capable of accepting the responsibility of caring for and nurturing all children, educating them, and protecting the environment so they can have a future?

Billy Connelly used to do a skit about his mother belting him for hitting his sister. Are we to respond to violence with violence and see ourselves as saviours?

Until we learn to respect each other and the planet we share, we are doomed to let those who would use us for their own power and profit pull the strings.

VIOLENCE BEGETS ONLY ONE THING – MORE VIOLENCE

Somehow, we – the beneficiaries of the West’s crusading, colonising, exploiting activities for so many centuries – have to resolve this hellish brew. As far as I’m concerned, however, Kaye Lee has nailed it:

Until we learn to respect each other and the planet we share, we are doomed to let those who would use us for their own power and profit pull the strings.

525 thoughts on “Violence – Futility – Violence – Futility . . .”

  1. Just as well Abbott got the boot. I don’t expect I’ll be saying this too often, but just this once, thank goodness Turnbull is now PM.

    Paris attack: Malcolm’s peace push as Tony talks tough

    PRIME Minister Malcolm Turnbull insists a political solution followed by a peacekeeping mission is the ultimate way of solving the Syrian terror war.
    Former Prime Minister Tony Abbott insists Islamic State can’t be contained and has to be destroyed by military force, declaring Australia must do more to defeat the “toxin at its source’’.
    The stark contrast in language and views was laid bare on national television yesterday as the past and present prime ministers hit the airwaves in the wake of the Paris atrocity.
    A defiant Mr Abbott insisted Islamic State had to be destroyed on the ground.
    “I certainly think that this latest atrocity — on top of other recent atrocities — does indicate that we do need to do more to tackle this toxin at its source,’’ Mr Abbott said.
    “This ISIL caliphate, it can’t be contained, it has to be defeated. It’s not going to go away, just by wishing it to go away.
    “It’s only going to be defeated if people take very strong steps against it.’’
    In contrast, Mr Turnbull did not oppose the need for a military victory but floated several options.
    “Ultimately, there will have to be a political solution,’’ he said

    http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/paris-attack-malcolms-peace-push-as-tony-talks-tough/story-fns0jze1-1227610281976

    Meanwhile – Channel 9 is forcing the racist ravings of Pauline Hanson on its viewers. No links. Just as well I don’t watch that place.

  2. Well goodness! A positive piece about Bill Shorten, and it’s from Mark Kenny.

    Turnbull – Tony Abbott in drag. Love it! That could stick.

    Shorten doubles down on Turnbull’s ‘green’ credentials

    Bill Shorten has unleashed a strong attack on the “green” credentials of Malcolm Turnbull ahead of the G20 meeting in Turkey and the subsequent Paris climate summit, depicting the new Liberal leader as all talk and of selling out on climate policy in exchange for the prime ministership.
    In exclusive comments to Fairfax Media, Mr Shorten upped the ante on Sunday, calling on Mr Turnbull, for the first time in such explicit terms, to lift the Abbott government’s 2030 emissions targets now that he is in charge.
    “We simply can’t afford Malcolm Turnbull to be Tony Abbott in drag when it comes to taking action on climate change,” he said

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/shorten-doubles-down-on-turnbulls-green-credentials-20151115-gkzgmo.html

  3. Some history on Waffles’ green credentials. (Thank you @eatatjoe2 for the link)

    A Former Logger Becomes Australian Federal Opposition Leader

    Mr Turnbull claimed in a media interview with ABC last year that “his attitude towards forestry today was informed by his involvement in the (Solomon Islands) logging industry”.

    He rejected accusations that he had once played a huge role in bad logging practices in Solomon Islands, claiming “he was trying to encourage local landowners to change logging practices and ways”.

    Mr Turnbull then further claimed “…. the company (Silvania) brought in some of the best foresters in the world. There was a lot of work done on reforestation, on plantations”.

    A report by the Australian International Development Aid Bureau – now Ausaid – in 1994 described the logging practices of Axiom subsidiary Silvania Forest Products as:…”more like a clear-felling operation and bearing little relation to an attempt at even retaining a token sample of future commercial crop on the site.”

    A separate report also described Silvania’s forest practices as “amongst the worst in the world.”

    http://www.solomontimes.com/news/a-former-logger-becomes-australian-federal-opposition-leader/2632

    Another of the many scandals in Turnbull’s past, something else the MSM chooses to ignore.

  4. “We simply can’t afford Malcolm Turnbull to be Tony Abbott in drag when it comes to taking action on climate change,” he said

    Good on you Bill. We need this repeated and repeated.

  7. gigilene

    I meant that comment only in the sense that Turnbull is not quite the warmonger Abbott is. The last thing the world needs right now is more troops sent into the Middle East, that would be giving these thugs exactly what they want.

    I don’t know if Turnbull is smart enough to understand that or stupid enough to cave in to the warmongers in his party who just want to kill more people, but having him say a political solution is the way to go is much better than having a thug screaming about more bombs, more troops.

  8. I see what you mean, leone. Sure Waffle finds the right words, words many of us want to hear. But … We’ll just have to wait. I have absolutely no confidence in this man.

  9. I should have mentioned yesterday that I would have been quite ok – resigned but ok – with Turnbull as PM. If we have to have a Liberal PM, then on balance it’s better that he be a bit of a do-nothing type than a culture warrior. You expect a little bit of bastardry of course, but in the knowledge that things could be worse.

    But I simply can’t forgive him for what he did to the NBN. He was handed a rotten brief, granted, but he did take to it with a great relish. He couldn’t wait to get out his set-piece speeches on Conroy, and misdirect over and over again about the progress being made and the money saved. If he’d shown just a modicum of distaste for the role he was given, and some reluctance in coming forward with his guff, I’d have retained a bit of respect for him.

    He’s so deeply flawed now that his PM-ship is just him living a lie. He’ll always be a caretaker, even if he wins the next election, because there’s no way he can put his stamp on Australian politics, or shape it in his image. He’s a betrayal of everything he claimed to stand for prior to joining the Liberal Party, and it’s turned him into a sort of nothing.

  10. A very good reflection by David Donovan at Independent Australia:

    Perhaps we could try to rid the world of its rampant inequality and unfairness. Where the West has all and the rest have fuck all. Because this is what drives the young, angry and humiliated men to ISIS and its analogues. That makes people so angry and humiliated they feel their lives are forfeit. That makes them take up arms and take up bombs, and strike back at innocent, blameless people.

    I think that’s what Jesus would likely do. But this isn’t a Christian thing. This is what any compassionate, aware human being would conclude. Christ simply being a classic and highly ironic public representation of good. Because most of the Christians I know are nothing like their Christ. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    Because being like Christ is far too hard for Christians. We have weapons, and we have armies, and we have war and so we will fight. Of course. And the terror will escalate. And the piles of dead will rise to the sky. And the fighting ‒ yes, the terrible fighting ‒ will go on forever.

    And some day soon it will be impossible to tell who were the terrorists and who were the ones we sent out to fight them ‒ to avenge us ‒ as if ever there was ever any difference at all.

    Except if we refuse to fight. If we turn the other cheek, perhaps we may all be saved.

  12. aguirre

    I liked your post. The trouble is he doesn’t even mind “just living a lie”, just like Abbott couldn’t care less whether he himself was lying or not. All the same to them. They both lack any principles.

  13. Aguirre

    Turnbull’s destruction of the NBN is made 1000 times worse by knowing he was investing in FTTP rollouts in Fance (France Telecom/Orange) and Spain (Telefonica) at the same time he was telling us we could not have the same thing here.

    His phoney excuses about the rollout in Europe being much less costly than it was in Australia because the distances to be covered were so different were ludicrous, and he never managed to explain why he chose to invest as he did.

    He has rid himself of those investments now, did it around December 2013.

  15. Why is it that the MSM, every last one of them, gleefully trawled through ancient history about Julia Gillard doing a small legal favour for a friend yet to a man/woman the whole rotten pack are deliberately ignoring the many scandals and corruptions of Malcolm Turnbull?

    Not one of them has mentioned his involvement in HIH, or his rain-making grant for his friend, or his logging in the Solomons or even Utegate. Not a word, not so much as a hint.

  17. leone

    It may be up to Labor to make it known to the public that Bull is rotten, as rotten as the MSM. But it probably would turn against Labor.

  18. gigilene

    We all know what happened when Labor dared to mention those Caymans investments. It was ‘class warfare’, ‘tall poppy syndrome’, jealousy.

    The Messiah is not only being adored, he is being protected. We went through this with Abbott, journalists protecting one of their own. Now we get it again, although Turnbull was only ever a part-time journo.

    And he’s a Liberal, reason enough for groveling and protecting.

  19. I think they’re pretty sure now that if Turnbull goes, so does the party for the foreseeable future. That they even have to protect his Cayman investments would be a bit of a worry – nagging, background worry, but there all the same. That the political press are fighting for the GST rise while the Liberals are absolving themselves of all responsibility for it is evidence that we’re in the middle of a propaganda war. Everyone knows it’s unpopular, but so far they’ve managed to keep it clear of the party while still pressing for it. That’s an unsustainable situation. Something will have to give.

    You know they’re stretching by the way they keep telling us we’re in favour of it. And refusing to run any polling to test that assumption. Surely at some point they’ll move on from telling us how much we love it and start telling us how it’s the only way to fix an ailing economy. And that will be accompanied by the inevitable cry of “Class Warfare!” if the ALP point out alternatives, such as forcing big business and the wealthy to pay their fair share, or ending corporate welfare.

    One line the ALP might like to consider: if it is ‘class warfare’, then why are the Liberals fighting on the side of the 3% with all the money and all the power?

  21. Well that didn’t last long. AllBull is now talking about increasing our military involvement in Syria. His ‘political solution’ is for the distant future. Sucking up to the yanks and other war-mongers at the G20, no doubt.

    Australia could increase its involvement in fight against IS: PM Malcolm Turnbull

    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has compared the attacks on Paris with a “war”, saying it is possible Australia will ramp up its involvement in the fight against Islamic State militants in Syria.

    Mr Turnbull has begun meeting world leaders at the G20 summit in Turkey, where the fight against terrorism and the battle for freedom will dominate talks.

    “It’s, you know, guns and bombs — yes, it looks, it does look like a war,’’ Mr Turnbull said.

    Mr Turnbull isn’t ruling out greater Australian military involvement in Iraq and Syria, saying Australia could become more involved in actions against Islamic State in Syria, pending discussions with allied governments.

    “We have to recognise that the resources, the strength of our states, of our nations, are so much greater than those of the terrorists,” he said.
    http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/11/16/03/27/australia-could-increase-its-involvement-in-fight-against-is-pm-malcolm-turnbull

    Turnbull is looking really, really old and haggard. The latest photos show bags and dark circles under his eyes, and drooping eyelids. He’s just not up to this gruelling international diplomacy thing. There are a few more weeks of this ahead of him. By the end of it he will resemble Dorian Gray’s portrait.

    Taken at the G20 –

  23. Julia Gillard had a tougher time of it than Abbott and Turnbull, and she flourished as PM. Those guys always wanted to be PM, but were/are not up to it.

  28. So we pay Tony $273 a night to stay at Peta’s place when he’s in Canberra. I presume he stays there free of charge.

    Apart from the gossip aspect, this brings up another issue. It’s time MPs had to present receipts and be repaid only the exact amount of legitimate expenses instead of being handed generous allowances with no questions asked.

  33. Fiona

    Quite a resemblance there, and Waffles plays on it by quoting a certain FU line as often as he can. He thinks it is amusing. I think it’s a wank.

    http://peterwilson.cc/quoting-fu/

    There has been much more of it since that was posted a year ago.

    Now – is Lucy at all like Elizabeth? And if she is, who is her Corder?

  34. Thank you for the warm welcome folks, much appreciated.

    Fiona, I can see the post with my link, does it have anything to do with the Firefox browser I am using?

  39. No problems with links here, but I’m using Chrome. Never had any problems with Firefox here either.

  41. ‘Receipts only’ would be an excellent idea, Leone. When I worked for the SA Govt in the 60s, 70s and early 80s they had such a scheme. It was probably left over from the days of Tom Playford, who ran a very tight ship and got value for money.

    Employed by SA Tourism in Sydney, I was by nature of the job a frequent traveller. It worked well to the government’s advantage, too, because I used my frequent journeys to Adelaide to stay with and catch up with my relatives. So I never claimed for most of my business trips, except the occasional business lunch.

    I was very surprised when I went to work for the Commonwealth that they took such an ‘open-ended’ attitude to travel expenses. Standard rates were allowed for any travel, whether actually used or not. Receipts were only required in the rare circumstance of having accommodation dearer than the allowance. I was told that it was deliberately so because the politicians liked to claim everything they were entitled to. And of course it was not taxable income.

    I heard about the way it could be used. A friend of a friend was clerk to an Arbitration Court Commissioner. He was based in Sydney but frequently in Melbourne for hearings. The commissioner had the same status as a judge and therefore the same allowances as a politician, which was generous.

    As regulars, they’d book into this cheapo guest house at St Kilda. A room was (then) about $25 a night, including breakfast. The TA rate for a judge was about $90 a night, which he claimed. My friend’s friend didn’t do quite as well as a clerk but still managed a profit at about $60.

    If a government was serious about saving, as distinct from just ‘Expenditure Watch’ type of grandstanding, they could probably save quite a bit of taxpayers money.

  42. Leone, GD

    APS employees who travel use a corporate credit card and the statements go to the agency’s relevant finance/account area for review and payment. Cash payments in advance for TA stopped about 7-8 years ago – at least in my agency it did.

    Pollies should have to use the same system for interstate/OS travel and for longer tern arrangements like renting appt in Cbr, there should be a central A/c for the pollie to authorise the regular payment transfer to rental ageny’s trust account – which is how most rent is paid these days.

  44. GD

    Yes, for their time in Cbr, most pollies these days rent an appt, or shared appt/house with a colleague. JG shared an appt, and there was Hockey’s wife infamous house..! It would be more cost effective if the system encouraged this.

    Also – not too long ago there were not as many appts in the vicinity of Parl Hse, only a few motels (Kim Beazley used to stay at one in Deakin, just down the road from PH), so there were not as many options for the pollies. Now, there are hundreds – Appts have appeared in the area almost overnight it seems.

    Even at $273 for only 4 nights of a sitting wk, thats over $1k a week There are 1br appts on state circle, just behind the Ministerial entrance to PH available now for $425/wk….

  45. Off topic, a question for cricket followers. There is a day and a half to go, Aussies are now batting. Is there a time limit or overs limit? Or doesn’t NZ get another go?

  46. 2gravel

    If NZ can get another 9 wickets before stumps tomorrow, then yes they get to bat again. Otherwise they are dependant on Smith declaring with enough runs / time to attempt to bowl NZ out.

    Time wise, there are always 20 overs mandated for the “official” last hour of a test match, but that always seems a bit weird to me given the slow over rates these days.

    A bit of History… Tests used to be 6 days, and even farther back they were not time limited – they played until there was a result – back in the first half of last century

  47. “terror” and national security could well pop up as barbie-stoppers these days, if you’d believe the current vibe, or at the local pub or club, etc. Not that the average sausage eater or schooner drinker tends to much talk about politics. But anyway … in case you’re asked, the Liberal Party is the last entity on earth you’d look to on national security. Their record is bloody hopeless.

    Every war we’ve been in since most of us outgrew our nappies have been entered into with relish by the Liberal party. Pretty much all were lost. Many died who shouldn’t.

    Luckily, the very one that mattered was handled with wisdom by a Labor PM.

    Only once has Australia been “threatened” by “terror”. That was the day that japanese bombs rained down on Darwin.

    Menzies, fresh from hailing Hitler as one of the century’s finest no less that a few months before the fuhrer’s panzers divisions overran Poland, had become, through the greatest good luck, a prototype feather duster for the later Gorton and Abbott. Had that not happened, we’d have no doubt sent our troops west to aid the cigar-chomping Churchill. Instead, Curtin looked east. Onya John! Thus began the Australian-US alliance.

    Another thing the Liberals didn’t invent. But that’s another story.

    The bad news is that “wild” Bill Shorten is sailing close to the wind by being the possible breaker of an honourable ALP anti-war tradition. Pull back Bill, you idiot! Whitlam possibly lost the election before the one he won because we went all the way with LBJ. Latham certainly lost one through his forthright offer of a Christmas gift.

    But with loss can come honour. I respect Latham for what he attempted to do, even if it came to nought.

    History will record that Latham spat the dummy and later thrived creating humourous consternation on TV panels.

    Whitlam stuck with it to become undoubtedly our greatest Australian.

  49. Angrybee

    Thank you so much, we are watching the cricket to get away from all the horror porn. Razz knows somethings about cricket, but I knew nothing until Grandsons started taking an interest last year, so there is a steep learning curve. It is a good escape pod though, just what we need at the moment.

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