Disinformationists & Disrupters

C@tmomma Uncategorized

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“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” Thomas Pynchon

I don’t know about you, but I find it incredibly frustrating when I come up hard against a commenter on the internet whom I consider a ‘Disinformationist’ or a ‘Disrupter’ .

We all know them, if not immediately at first contact, then ultimately by their behaviour.

Or, at least I hope we all might be able to better spot them by the end of this helpful ‘How to’ recognise them heads-up.

It may save you the time you may otherwise have expended engaging with them in order to try and change their minds.  Because you won’t.

They do not exist to be persuadable.

Let’s just start by understanding what Disinformation is(from Wikipedia):

Disinformation is intentionally false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately. For this reason, it is synonymous with and sometimes called black propaganda. It is an act of deception and false statements to convince someone of untruth. Disinformation should not be confused with misinformation, information that is unintentionally false.

Unlike traditional propaganda techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions. A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole (a limited hangout).

Another technique of concealing facts, or censorship, is also used if the group can affect such control. When channels of information cannot be completely closed, they can be rendered useless by filling them with disinformation, effectively lowering their signal-to-noise ratio and discrediting the opposition by association with many easily disproved false claims.

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Such are the sorts of verbal attacks that we see every day, from Left and Right, from one or another group, political party or individual commenter, against one or another party. Of course, globally, but specifically in our own neck of the internet woods.  Mainly on other blogs because this one is moderated by active not passive moderators.

Passive Mods on other blogs appear to be hog-tied to Jay Rosen’s ‘Voice From Nowhere’ paradigm, assuming an objective perspective that sits back to let all flowers have the chance to bloom equally on their blog, even if some of them are the equivalent of internet weeds. In contrast with Active Mods, such as we are here, who are constantly on the look-out for the blog trolls that simply seek to disinform and disrupt. Who then get weeded out, so as to keep the garden blooming, unchoked with deliberate distractions from the disrupters.  Who seem to be just like any other commenter, until you start to see some constant similarities to the way they, and others of a like mind, go about their posting.

So, as a service to us all I just thought I might outline some of the ways they do this so you can tell them apart from people who genuinely have a different point of view to you. Basically so that you don’t waste your precious time and energy on trying to change their minds, with facts and rational argument. Such people will never change their mind because that is not the reason they are where they are, interacting forcefully with you.  They are trying to spread manure in the garden to burn the flowers and allow the weeds to grow and take over.

Eight Signs of a Disinformationist

1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, unless engaged in faux ‘constructive input’ such as a Gish Gallop, generally avoiding the citing of references. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies THEIR authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.

2) Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues well.

3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic under discussion. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.

4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.

5) Aggressively Mainstream/Anti-Conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for non-mainstream or ‘conspiracy theories’ and almost always are defending the official narrative of your political opponents.

6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of ‘artificial’ emotionalism and an unusually thick skin — an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and nonacceptance, no matter how condemning the evidence, they simply deny everything you present as evidence, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem counterproductive.

With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game — where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.

7) Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes sometimes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic and simply being interested in an intent to disrupt the flow of an argument which is trending towards their opposition
8) Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News/Social Media Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when envoys of an empowered player are involved in a cover up or disinformation operation:

  • ANY Blog/Social Media posting by a targeted ‘truth teller’ can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The envoys of the empowered players can afford to have people sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage.  Since disinfo in a Blog/Social Media setting only works if the reader sees it-fast response is called for, or the visitor may be swayed towards the truth.
  • Or, when dealing with a rebuttal to a truth in the public arena, such as in the form of a chain disinformation email, a delay in the response usually occurs. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to ‘get permission’ or instruction from a formal chain of command.
  • In any News Media/Social Media forum, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same, usually 48-72 hours delay – the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted ‘truth teller’, or their comments, are considered more important with respect to their potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked more than once for the same sin.

Well, there you have it. A rough outline of what I believe we are up against, as web warriors for the Progressive cause, as we go into battle on a daily basis for what we believe in and wish to defend.

I’m not saying that the above is true of every encounter with the ‘enemy’ that we have, just to be aware that probably not all of them are ‘weekend warriors’, just engaging in the verbal battle for altruistic reasons simply. I’m pretty sure that eloquent exponents in our corner, the Progressive corner, are well known to the o(O)pposition, and are targeted accordingly so they don’t become too influential in the day to day ideological debate that has started to go on since the internet and other forms of Social Media flung open the Doors of Perception.

859 thoughts on “Disinformationists & Disrupters”

  1. As a Catholic, I often have a hard look at the various priests that I come across, and try to see in them what motivation they had to become Priests. Mostly it is easy. They mostly fall into the category of social worker or evangelist. If they belong to the specialist orders of Priests they tend to also categorise themselves as teachers or academics.
    This afternoon I was able to watch some of the evidence Cardinal Pell gave to the enquiry. My wife and I looked for signs that might have driven the Cardinal to become a Priest.
    There seems to be no good reason for him to be a Priest. He is not an intellectual of any stripe, certainly not a social worker, nothing so soft lefty as a teacher, nor anything so hands on with the hoi poilloi as being an evangelist.
    He is just a hard eyed fixer, no human charity or feeling for his fellow man is allowed to break through the crust he seems to have accreted around his heart. He is trying to run the Church in the same way he would run an Insurance company if that had been the career he had chosen in stead.

  3. and it continues to annoy me that

    people assume so much, about what they only think
    .they know
    us ordinary catholics know very little only what we read.

    this day and age there are few religious as we call them teaching in schools\
    there is very few young people that become brothers, ect.
    in fact I know none under 50 plus years and most don’t teach.

    so would ask if saying things use the past tense]
    at the school we have here there is no religious teacher any more
    and I will preface that by saying, we never had anything like what your hearing about in any school I ever had anything to do with,

    teachers now
    ‘only lay people like my girls,
    so please lets talk in the past
    I am not defending any one, just asking that you don’t assume
    this could happen now, as I said,

    all lay teachers, now and some of our schools have more non catholic students than catholic

    do you really think parents of today modern society would send their children to catholic schools if they had any worries like this,
    so many checks are done before employing like all areas where chidren are concerned,

    =====================

  5. Denese,

    As far as I know nobody is criticising people who teach in Catholic schools now.

    However, there is – even you must see this – a problem with things that have gone on for a very long time.

    Australians should know what happened, even if it was years ago. Doing so is not a criticism of Catholics. It may, however, be a criticism of the Church as an institution.

    I really hope that you can understand the difference.

    You are a devout Catholic – great!

    Your institutional church doesn’t necessarily live up to your high ideals and high practice.

    That is my only point.

  6. Caught the end of Q&A. Bit presumptuous of Jones to argue with an astro-physicist about the possible existence of multiverses at the time of the Big Bang.

  8. Emma just had Hamish Fitzsimmons on. He was live-blogging Pell’s appearance.

  9. Ducky,

    I hope Mr Fitzsimmons has an appropriate antidote.

    And moi is off to bed now.

    Night, all.

  10. Cat,
    Bronwyn Halfpenny is the daughter of the late John. She is in her first term as the member for a safe northern suburbs seat.

  11. I am back from the play, it was most interesting. A young female actor gave a one hour monologue, set in London, a black family whose son is killed in an random act of violence. She goes through the day from waking up, going to work, getting a call to come home, police, stunned family, shock and grief.

    It was very well done and the role was very demanding.

    Pre and after drinks/nibbles went down well too. 😀

  13. Good morning Dawn Patrollers.
    Mark Dreyfus puts ot to Abbott on racial dioscrimination law.
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/attorneygeneral-asks-abbott-not-to-scrap-discrimination-law-breached-by-bolt-20130527-2n6qx.html
    Barney Zwartz covers Pell’s appearance at the inquiry. (Short version of Pell’s testimony – yes there were many bad things done but don’t try yo nail me for any of them!)
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/pell-makes-admissions-20130527-2n7l5.html
    David Pope seems to agree wholehartedly with me.
    http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/opinion/cartoons/david-pope-20120214-1t3j0.html

  14. Section 2 . . .

    Tim Colebatch on the auto industry.
    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/how-we-lost-our-place-in-the-global-car-industry-20130527-2n7a1.html
    Tory Shepherd always writes a good article.
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/tory-shepherd-religion-should-be-left-out-of-decision-making-and-play-no-part-in-how-our-laws-are-formed/story-e6freabc-1226651623453
    Bruce Petty gets Hockey with a beauty!

    MUST SEE! David Rowe excels himself here with his view of Pell and evolution.
    http://www.afr.com/p/national/cartoon_gallery_david_rowe_1g8WHy9urgOIQrWQ0IrkdO

  15. And from the Land of the Free –

    This is a very ugly situation.
    http://americablog.com/2013/05/catholic-rel-rt-anti-gay-march-in-paris-against-turns-violent.html
    North Carolina is fast becoming a really nasty place.
    http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2013/05/27/arizona-meet-north-carolina-your-wannabe-papers-please-law-twin/
    Some Memorial Day cartoons.
    http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2013/05/27/cartoons-of-the-day-memorial-day-3/
    Sick!
    http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/posters-appear-seattle-tying-lgbt-mar

  17. Morning BK. Good links as usual. The Deyfus one is both good and interesting. I think it shows a slightly new strategy. Two of the sharper new breed of frontbenchers, Dreyfus and Leigh (via the PM’s Office) are going after the contradictions in Abbott’s public stances.

    For a long time Abbott, and some of his team, have been able to walk both sides of the street with public utterances that go unchallenged by our reporters. Now, he’s being called for it, and in an interesting way, of calling out the consequences of a particular pursuit.

    Over time this will either force Abbott to take a firm position or his hollowness will get a thorough going over. Emerson did it with the Whyalla wipe-out and Combet regularly gets into the porkies of carbon tax scares, but I think this new strategy may be even more effective.

  18. Is there a “What have the media ever done for us?” video somewhere? (Parroting Rupert Murdoch, and … oh.)

  19. BK
    Thanks for the links. 🙂

    Does anyone know why Greg Combet is absent from Parliament? He was away for family reasons in Budget week and also this week. I don’t want to pry, I really like him and hope things aren’t as ominous as they sound.

  20. Morning pubkateers

    2gravel

    No idea why Combet has been absent from parliament.

  22. http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/tory-shepherd-religion-should-be-left-out-of-decision-making-and-play-no-part-in-how-our-laws-are-formed/story-e6freabc-1226651623453
    Eric Abetz, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, says we should be able to debate religion like we debate footy teams. He also says that only the “intellectually bankrupt” expect religion to be left out of policy making
    =============================================================

    please read all ,, this bit leaped out of the page at me, but read all the article,

    now this is a worry

  24. denese

    What jumped out at me was the comment “that soon to be PM Abbott”…….

    Is there anyone who gives team Labor a chance?

  26. who is any one to say that a person is intellectually bankrupt.
    I have never heard such an expression

    but as I cherry picked a bit BB or tocomma may feel I should of put more of the text,

    but click on and read, I often feel lurkers are very busy and read only the head lines,, there are no comments on article yet but it will be very interesting to read.
    I would think abbott having spent many years at the seminary would find it very hard not to bring religion in to his thoughts every day..
    and for any one just reading I am a catholic, ( Christian}

    just an aside to that, I find so many people who have no idea that abbott was a seminarian

  27. another way of looking at that re abbott being pm

    is to make people really think, the religious side of things,
    I didn’t see that in the article as I was honed in what abbott would do to u s

    re his religion, I can never see him not brining it in every day.
    in his thoughts, then those thoughts will be transferred to policy

    he is not what I would all a Christian he is an orthodox catholic.
    who believe that the pope is all knowing, I wish the guardian would ask that question .

    for 99 percent of catholics we think that’s ridiculous.
    but I doubt he does and if he said so , I wouldn’t believe him any way
    so there.
    that’s why I use to go on to rummell about ivf, losing benefits from medi care and medibank private, will the Pill be off the pbs.

    we have no idea, only a person who is not thinking through to consequences would vote for abbott and the lnp

  29. why on earth would they be ominous, I actually spoke to one of his staff

    they are a happy jolly lot, nothing was mentioned about any thing
    and I didn’t even know that,he was not in parliement
    I wanted them to note something I had read
    re the carbon price.,thanked me and chatted a bitl
    ==================================
    may be its some sort of joyous occasion

    who knows

    who knows

  30. Good morning all

    What’s with the Greens and certain Indies bagging the government. This morning Bandt is going on about gambling ads on TV reform telling the government to go further than what is being speculated.

    Surely they can see that none of what the whinge about will get anywhere under the (according to the MSM) incoming federal LNP government. Gambling, SSM, asylum seeker, education etc etc.

    The coalition will give these people – should they still be there – NOTHING. They shit me to tears.

  31. and vicy I would say that they are told to write that bit about hm being pm

    it is all part of the brainwashing exercise,,

    from thinking back I am sure this was said in 2007 re rudd
    but the difference is I think the drovers dog could of won the election
    in 2007 over workchoices.

    we didn’t notice being said then, as we just took it for granted
    this time around I am hoping with all abbotts failings it will work in reverse

  32. haloween I get weekly emails begging for money from some green or other and brant is on about the abc,

    so I write back every time, and say, well you chose to not support the pm
    if so you would may be in a better position, so no you chose abbott
    find your own funds
    they have nothing left, the name green party I always thought was rather silly as they would run out of geen things,

    but If abbott should get there,, the will wonder why they ever bothered
    as all the environment will be trashed only have to look at the attitude to national parks in nsw and qld

  33. was not intending to post again this morning but I found this by accident
    and I do believe I was guided to it for vicy’

    ===================================================Notice how the inevitability of the defeat of Labor is embedded in these headlines. This is another element of the media’s strategy. The message is: How could you vote for this loathsome Labor Government, with its inept PM and its incompetent Treasurer? No one else will be voting for it. It is finished, set for a massive defeat, singing its ‘Swan song’, hopeless. The implicit message is: don’t waste your vote; get onto the winner – the Coalition. Overlay this sentiment onto the already hate-acculturated electorate and a powerful message is transmitted – vote this awful Gillard Government OUT.

    http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/

    =================================================================
    this is from ad astra I know he want mind me picking this bit out, as it was the only bit I saw when I linked on ( funny that} so I thought this is for Vicky

  34. so its all into herd mentality brain washing I have been pointing this out every where I blog so,, vicy on pb do the same,

    ===================================
    id like to say to them we do have a brain

  35. I’m glad everyone has finally caught up with yesterday’s news about Abbott’s PPL pushing up interest rates. PMJG and Jenny Macklin both mentioned it in QT yesterday, after it had been all over the papers yesterday morning.

    But…

    What about talking up all the other price rises this incredibly stupid brainfart will bring. Abbott will tax something like 3500 companies, not the 1500 he initially talked about. Among those copmpanies are all the major retailers and supermarkets, all the electricity providers, the petrol companies, the big freight companies, the banks, insurance companies….you get the drift. Every one of them will be putting up their prices to recover the cost of Abbott’s Great Big New Tax. The rise in the cost of living will be far higher than that caused by the carbon price and there will be no compensation. Unless, of course, you are a ‘woman of calibre’ who gets that very generous $75,000 compensation for pushing out a high-calibre baby.

    Add a whopping huge increase in the cost of living to those higher interest rates and the removal of a swathe of benefits and you have a recipe for misery for anyone on an average or low income or on any sort of benefit.

  36. denese
    he is not what I would all a Christian he is an orthodox catholic.
    who believe that the pope is all knowing, I wish the guardian would ask that question .

    for 99 percent of catholics we think that’s ridiculous.
    A very good distinction. And I think that’s what a lot of people are probably referring to when they have a go at Pell’s views.

    On that point, there was a famous Tom Uren story about Arthur Calwell, a papal knight. Tom tackled him one day about his constant hatred of Whitlam. Tom’s point really was that hate was such a negative emotion that it did harm to oneself to be consumed by it. But after a while, with Calwell looking uneasy but clearly not agreeing with this view, he said,
    “Arthur, it’s not Christian to hate!”
    Calwell replied, “I’m not Christian. I’m a Catholic!”

  38. We seem to have reached a point where, in the following general statement by the electorate – “I know Abbott is x, y and z, and that’s a worry, but can we leave the assessments until after the election?” – the x’s y’s and z’s have just about reached critical mass. There are so many of them now that they’re almost impossible to ignore. Here’s a short, by no means exhaustive, selection:

    – His PPL scheme is a tax, and people are definitely going to be slugged
    – HIs NBN is likely to be expensive to implement, unworkable and unaffordable for most people
    – His economic numbers don’t add up
    – ‘Flexibility’ is WorkChoices by another name
    – Getting rid of the ‘Carbon Tax’ won’t reduce electricity bills
    – His AS plan is not only incomplete (still!) but antagonistic to Indonesia
    – His connections to Pell are increasingly unhealthy
    – He has no plan for education at all
    – By his own admission, ‘getting taxes down and getting regulations down’ won’t save any manufacturing companies by themselves, and he has nothing beyond that
    – He only speaks before sycophantic, hand-picked audiences
    – He avoids scrutiny in general
    – He can’t think on his feet, and has to have all his pressers scripted
    – Right-leaning independents won’t have a bar of him

    These are things that are more-or-less common knowledge out in the community, things that even a Liberal supporter will concede. You have to overlook, or ignore, all of them before you can even start to make a case for a LibNat government.

  39. Good Morning Pubketeers! 🙂
    I’m here but I’m not here. I’m getting another post together. I think it’s the cold weather, or summat. 😉

  40. Aguirre

    What you say is true. However, who is going to ask the questions and write about the shortfalls in LNP policy that you point out. The last great hope for the MSM lasted less than 24 hours with the Oz Guardian nailing it’s colours firmly to the MSM group thought.

    Until the independent press is admitted to the Canberra Press Gallery TA and his LNP are going to skate in.

  42. From the Oh-The-Delicious-Irony Dept.…

    David Jones boss Paul Zahra has vowed to push through his strategy of sacrificing loss-making stocktake sales to safeguard store profit margins, just at a time when a warm start to winter and pitiful consumer sentiment have led the upmarket department store to post its worst quarterly sales result in two years.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/djs-holds-firm-on-discounts-20130527-2n7hv.html#ixzz2UXYDJPHn

    Things got bad for Mr. Zahara a couple of years back when he blamed the Carbon Tax for his piss-poor management of DJs (even though the Carbon Tax was still a year ahead).

    Now he’s blaming the climate itself, which the Carbon Tax is supposed to help fix.

    Poor Mr. Zahara: can’t take a trick lately.

  43. From yesterday’s Hansard:

    “The Minister for Climate Change, Industry and Innovation will be absent from question time this week for personal reasons”

  44. Also from Hansard. It’s official: Pyne is a yapper:

    “Mr Albanese: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The member for Sturt was yapping throughout that entire answer by the Prime Minister, from the beginning to the end. I ask you to draw his attention to standing order 65.”

  45. Well, I think what we’re starting to learn about the Greens is that their political model was ‘get behind Bob Brown’. He’s gone, but the model hasn’t really changed. Brown was a committed environmentalist, but he was a populist as well, and it was often his force of character that glossed over the inconsistencies in the party and allowed them to get away with things they really should have been held to account for.

    With Brown gone, the inconsistencies are exposed. And instead of addressing them, the Greens are embracing them.

    I’ve said this before – the Greens can’t be the Socialist Party as well. Not only do the philosophies of the two conflict internally, but it makes it almost impossible for them to hold on to anyone outside the hard left who cares about the environment. In their stances on AS, unemployment benefits and now pokies, they’ve made no effort to tie their statements to environmental concerns.

    There are plenty of people from the centre, and even the right, who believe in climate change and care about preserving the environment. But, by insisting that action in these areas must be a Socialist concern and allied to Socialist causes, the Greens are losing support in those demographics. It’s being interpreted, when any interest is taken by the MSM, as support for environmental causes softening. But it’s not that at all. It’s the Greens going way outside their brief and turning off would-be supporters.

    They’re a hopeless party, a joke. It makes me angry watching them sabotage their own efficacy by indulging their student-left politics.

  47. I can tell Mr Zahra why DJs sales are dropping. My beautiful daughter has been working for DJs for just over a year, as a casual. Poor students have to take what work they can find to help pay the rent. She has just resigned because she was offered something better. DJs do not treat their casual staff well.

    Anyway, DJs sales staff are paid commission if they sucessfully flog DJs AMEX card to customers. It works like this – customer pays for their goods with their DJs store card, sales person says ‘Would you like to upgrade to our AMEX card We can do it right now’. Customer is, ideally anyway, won over by the sales ptich and signs up, even though the AMEX card will cost them a yearly feee and the store card does not.

    My daughter wasn’t interested in that, she preferred to go without the loosy commission it would have earned. She says customers are not always delighted by staff trying to pressure them to sign up to something they don’t want. It is highly likely that this is scaring off customers.

    Another reason for poor sales – truly awful stock in her department, ladies fashion. Poor cuts, bad manufacture, downright ugly clothes that sat on the racks all seasion and still didn’t sell in end-of-season sales. Or the next sale, or the onbe after that. She, fashion-conscious little soul that she is, and skilled seamstress as well, could not understand why buyers got it so wrong so many times.

    So the moral for David Jones and the rest is – don’t try to force customers into doing things they don’t want to do, and have stock that people actually want to buy. How hard is that?

  48. And the Greens are turning out to be, as John Heywood said, “neither fish, nor flesh, nor good red herring”

  49. Good Morning Patrons!

    Sorry I haven’t been about lately, I’ve been flat out at work. 😦

    Caught Pell’s rubbish response yesterday. Seems he’s got a cross where his heart should be. A poor excuse for a human being. Think he will be spending some time in the confessional for those whopping big porkies he told yesterday.

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