“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” Thomas Pynchon
I don’t know about you, but I find it incredibly frustrating when I come up hard against a commenter on the internet whom I consider a ‘Disinformationist’ or a ‘Disrupter’ .
We all know them, if not immediately at first contact, then ultimately by their behaviour.
Or, at least I hope we all might be able to better spot them by the end of this helpful ‘How to’ recognise them heads-up.
It may save you the time you may otherwise have expended engaging with them in order to try and change their minds. Because you won’t.
They do not exist to be persuadable.
Let’s just start by understanding what Disinformation is(from Wikipedia):
Disinformation is intentionally false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately. For this reason, it is synonymous with and sometimes called black propaganda. It is an act of deception and false statements to convince someone of untruth. Disinformation should not be confused with misinformation, information that is unintentionally false.
Unlike traditional propaganda techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions. A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole (a limited hangout).
Another technique of concealing facts, or censorship, is also used if the group can affect such control. When channels of information cannot be completely closed, they can be rendered useless by filling them with disinformation, effectively lowering their signal-to-noise ratio and discrediting the opposition by association with many easily disproved false claims.
Such are the sorts of verbal attacks that we see every day, from Left and Right, from one or another group, political party or individual commenter, against one or another party. Of course, globally, but specifically in our own neck of the internet woods. Mainly on other blogs because this one is moderated by active not passive moderators.
Passive Mods on other blogs appear to be hog-tied to Jay Rosen’s ‘Voice From Nowhere’ paradigm, assuming an objective perspective that sits back to let all flowers have the chance to bloom equally on their blog, even if some of them are the equivalent of internet weeds. In contrast with Active Mods, such as we are here, who are constantly on the look-out for the blog trolls that simply seek to disinform and disrupt. Who then get weeded out, so as to keep the garden blooming, unchoked with deliberate distractions from the disrupters. Who seem to be just like any other commenter, until you start to see some constant similarities to the way they, and others of a like mind, go about their posting.
So, as a service to us all I just thought I might outline some of the ways they do this so you can tell them apart from people who genuinely have a different point of view to you. Basically so that you don’t waste your precious time and energy on trying to change their minds, with facts and rational argument. Such people will never change their mind because that is not the reason they are where they are, interacting forcefully with you. They are trying to spread manure in the garden to burn the flowers and allow the weeds to grow and take over.
Eight Signs of a Disinformationist
1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, unless engaged in faux ‘constructive input’ such as a Gish Gallop, generally avoiding the citing of references. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies THEIR authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.
2) Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues well.
3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic under discussion. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.
4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.
5) Aggressively Mainstream/Anti-Conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for non-mainstream or ‘conspiracy theories’ and almost always are defending the official narrative of your political opponents.
6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of ‘artificial’ emotionalism and an unusually thick skin — an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and nonacceptance, no matter how condemning the evidence, they simply deny everything you present as evidence, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem counterproductive.
With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game — where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.
7) Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes sometimes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic and simply being interested in an intent to disrupt the flow of an argument which is trending towards their opposition
8) Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News/Social Media Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when envoys of an empowered player are involved in a cover up or disinformation operation:
- ANY Blog/Social Media posting by a targeted ‘truth teller’ can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The envoys of the empowered players can afford to have people sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. Since disinfo in a Blog/Social Media setting only works if the reader sees it-fast response is called for, or the visitor may be swayed towards the truth.
- Or, when dealing with a rebuttal to a truth in the public arena, such as in the form of a chain disinformation email, a delay in the response usually occurs. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to ‘get permission’ or instruction from a formal chain of command.
- In any News Media/Social Media forum, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same, usually 48-72 hours delay – the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted ‘truth teller’, or their comments, are considered more important with respect to their potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked more than once for the same sin.
Well, there you have it. A rough outline of what I believe we are up against, as web warriors for the Progressive cause, as we go into battle on a daily basis for what we believe in and wish to defend.
I’m not saying that the above is true of every encounter with the ‘enemy’ that we have, just to be aware that probably not all of them are ‘weekend warriors’, just engaging in the verbal battle for altruistic reasons simply. I’m pretty sure that eloquent exponents in our corner, the Progressive corner, are well known to the o(O)pposition, and are targeted accordingly so they don’t become too influential in the day to day ideological debate that has started to go on since the internet and other forms of Social Media flung open the Doors of Perception.
THE PUB 
This one from Pell is getting no attention: ‘Some of the victims weren’t entirely blameless’
Was over at the Guardian reading some things..There was one article by a person claiming they were a Bogan and the political parties had to win her vote.
She is kidding herself if she thinks SHE is a bogan!..for a start, the true bogan doesn’t even know the names of any political parties let alone that an election is in the wind! ..I kid you not!…The true bogan hasn’t even got it on his radar that there is such a thing as political persuasion and his vote is being sought, because he most likely hasn’t even registered TO vote!…AND the hard-core bogan is the one who wears those loose-fitting soccer shorts and top in summer and loose-fitting training tracky-daks gear in winter and haunts pet shops at the tropical fish tanks looking for the perfect conversationalist to chat to after the footy….
You can have a bogan before you..you can be holding their shoulders and looking straight into their eyes ala Kath and Kim..and you can be imploring them to “understand?…do you understand?”…and despite their giggling stridant assertions that “Yes!..Yes!…I do..I do!”….you know that as soon as you let go of their shoulders, the boat has slipped it’s mooring and is drifting to the middle of the lake where it will certainly sink without trace, leaving only an oil-slick from the chap-stick on the surface!
THAT…..is a Bogan.
FWIW, my contribution to The Guardian’s article on Abbott:
Old journo habits die hard. Grattan couldn’t shake hers and it doesn’t seem Lenore Taylor can either.
For another online poll
http://thedailytrash.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/cardinal-george-pell-woefully-inadequate/
Ducky:
Pell’s comment about (wtte) some victims weren’t entirely blameless. Did he actually say that? I haven’t seen it in any news reporting of his testimony.
fess,
#abuseinquiry
Lots said they heard it. I didn’t.
Emma Alberici
I’ll be speaking to Comms Minister Stephen Conroy tonight about the Government’s move to ban broadcast of live sports betting odds #Lateline
Toolman now going with the cuts to security agencies. Must be another of those decrease in increase things.
Ducky:
He has reportedly asked for a transcript of his testimony to be placed online within the next 24 hours. I reckon it will make for very interesting reading.
fess,
Even if he didn’t make that utterance, he’ll be hanged for many of the other things he said during those four hours.
Ducky:
Yep.
Pell’s testimony reminds me of those James Hardie and tobacco company execs who moved heaven and earth to deny their ‘product’ had caused harm, disease or death, that they didn’t know of the harms of their product.
Catholics are entitled to feel appalled and let down by Pell’s admissions today. When you think that this man was responsible for the ‘pastoral care’ of Australian catholics over his lifetime, you just shudder at the thought of how many were utterly failed by his lack of empathy, leadership, or just plain old giving a shit.
If there is one person I will not miss if and when there is an overhaul of Aunty, it is Uhlmann…I don’t think there has ever been a more inept “front-man” on the ABC. why is he still there save for political reasons?
tmomma
May 27, 2013 at 6:51 pm
As per usual, the best, most truthful stories in The Australian are in the Business section. here’s one that’s dynamite for Tony Abbott, as it gives the government so much to work with
=======================================================
is there a link,
i also would love a story that concluded., with the labor scheme would be scrapped, because it will , they will not have both
and in the end what is the bet he would have neither,
i thought i would link it on face, book’
talking headlines and face book
i am very careful about how head lines are phrases re face book as people as always only read the head line.
and often the first paragraphs are not face book material
they write for gotchas and banner headlines,
is there a way re twitter to get that story out the bit in black, was that also in the story,
i suppose you would send the link to your member for jenny macklin
i worry they miss things
i have had my members staff say,,, we are to busy to see things like that
well i say for goodness sake this is an election year
a tweet by the lady who owns the hoopla said it all.
confessions,
I watched most all of Pell’s testimony while I was making the pies, and I must say I was impressed by the Victorian State Government inquisitors. I heard one referred to as Ms Halfpenny. Wondered if she was John Halfpenny’s daughter. O’Brien skewered Pell best at the end, if in a somewhat emotional way, with positions put that GP couldn’t prevaricate, obfuscate, equivocate or BS his way out of. I think this latter part of Pell’s testimony will be, or should be, what sinks him. He basically admitted that he did nothing as Archbishop of Melbourne, when both his predecessor and his successor did. Hmm.
The Liberal with the Chris Pyne tightly-waved do and the expensive suit also put up a creditable performance.
The questions about the Torts of Hurt(?) wrt the liability only being with the individual priest, as opposed to the Catholic Church in general, were also informative and elucidated the most vitriolic response to the questioner, I thought, from Pell. Seems as though Pell is a bean counter. 🙂
denese,
Here is the link to that story:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/banks-to-pass-on-cost-of-parental-leave/story-e6frg6n6-1226650957465
nas,
The Catholic Mafia is everywhere. 🙂
CTar1,
I’m not surprised you made a mistake! 😉
Btw, what’s the go with the nabobs of ONA, ASIS and ASIO whingeing about not being able to do the jobs they have been tasked to do by the government because of the ‘Efficiency Dividend’ ?
I’ll take any bet that Emma Alberici goes down the ‘Why didn’t you go further?’ route with her questioning of the Comms Minister, Conroy, tonight on Lateline.
TLBD,
I’ll sign up for the PMPO mailing list tomorrow. Tonight I’m frazzled. 🙂
I’ve spent the last hour – in between identifying the suspected Dead Rat somewhere near the fridge as a Dead Cucumber in the fridge (much vanilla and water have now been applied) – reading the comments to
the Oz Guardian’sLenore Taylor’s latest hate-piece on PMJG.It’s been entertaining: far more so than comments on similar articles on Outdated Media sites.
Interesting data from the Morgan poll:
Tony’s not home and hosed yet. 🙂
Fiona,
A dead cucumber, eh? Leftover from Summer? 😉
The only thing worse, for mine, is a dead broccoli. Gross!
C@tmomma,
Leftover from about six weeks ago – and moi has been meaning to eat it 😥
C@Tmomma
It wasn’t a card mistake. I was checking out the leg and found a little bit of hair that I pulled on.
Marvelous girl but a little too young.
On the other point the intelligence people are, frankly, full of shit.
C@t,
When we returned from the Wild West, with Darling Daughter in tow, she announced that she wanted to go on a seriously strange eating program called The Fighter’s Diet.
So, the day after we got home, she sashayed off to the supermarket and spent a somewhat large amount of money on some rather weird products, as well as copious quantities of broccoli, cabbage, capsicum, cauliflower …
Not quite one day into the “program” she confessed that she just couldn’t do it: too much to eat in the six meals required, and not enough energy generated.
So, suddenly, what the heck to do with the billions of kilos of vegetables, chicken breasts, All-Bran, and oat bran … ?
OH is – sort of uncomplainingly – eating his way through vast quantities of soup made from broccoli, cabbage, and cauliflower. Curry powder is helping immensely.
He also ate the remaining (i.e., most of the) All-Bran for breakfast – almost without complaint.
I converted the chicken into not my best-ever Coq au Vin,
She presented her flame of the moment with the frozen egg-whites.
She has also promised never ever to inflict anything like that on us again.
CTar,
Definitely too much information.
Fiona – Long ago.
And remembered.
Fiona,
You won’t know what to do with yourselves once you have eaten your way through the exotic food! 😀
OK, another performance from Verandah Fatstone on Q&A I can live without. So I will bid you adieu for the night because I have to get up at sparrow’s fart tomorrow morning and I am frazzled from a big day on my feet today. 🙂
TTFN!
C@tmomma,
When Darling Daughter decides to cook, as opposed to doing fads, she is totally brilliant!
All due to my expert tuition, of course …
Won’t be all that long in following your lead – it’s been a devilishly tiring day.
CTar,
Your tale of woe reminded me of something that happened to friends of my parents approximately 50 years ago.
They were playing bridge, and were partners. The male, for some odd reason, decided to bid 7 no trumps when he held 12 spades.
Strangely, they didn’t make the contract.
His OH was mightily annoyed.
Once in bed, and with spouse asleep, she applied her feet to his back and shoved him out of bed.
Well, Raoul The Rat is not dead, and is not stinking up the house by virtue of his putrefying corpse.
In fact he is hale and hearty. Haler and heartier than he has ever been, or than any rat has a right to be.
Every night I give him his dinner – precisely 14 dog chow bikkies (small dog size), and as a special treat a couple of small pieces of best Parmesan cheese.
I guess I took pity on the poor little bugger when we found a bottle of glimmer sprinkle with its plastic cap half eaten off, with tiny little tooth marks upon it. I thought: “I can’t allow the little fella to starve.”
Anyway, what if he’d made it through to the glimmer sprinkle and poisoned himself? Or worse, clogged up his little intestines?
But I got cunning.
I left a couple of dog chow bikkies on the kitchen bench, just as a test.
Next morning they were… gone.
The only conclusion I can draw from their disappearance was that Raoul was not satisfied with his “Meal: Ready To Eat” rations, and has cast his beady little black eyes further afield.
(How do I know they’re beady and black? I confess I have spied on Raoul by keeping as quiet as a mouse – or a rat- while he scurries out to munch his dog chow bikkies left under the stairs).
Yep… next morning his little treats… they were gone.
As if to confirm my brilliant diagnosis of the situation, yesterday morning, and THIS morning we found 1/3rd eaten apples in the fruit bowl. The little scar marks on the apple flesh – perfectly matching rat-sized teeth, like glacier marks in some miniature U-shaped alpine valley – were a dead giveaway.
There is only one conclusion: Raoul is a greedy little bastard and he has a stomach the size of Phineas Fogg’s balloon (David Niven, eat your heart out, before Raoul gets to it).
The only trouble is: I admire Raoul’s industry. From nothing he’s gotten our household to prepare dinner for him, and to check his progress via scientific-style experiments.
As to cleanliness, Raoul leaves the minimum of little dried black rat pellets behind him. He follows the age-old dictum: “Don’t shit where you eat. Shit behind the piano.”
(God, I’m dreading rolling the piano out when Raoul is gone).
“Gone?” I hear you say..
Yes, gone. Not dead, just forcibly emigrated.
I am purchasing the “humane rat trap” I have been threatening to purchase for three weeks now, on the weekend.
Raoul (if there’s any justice, and the science is right – and who doesn’t trust scientists? Hands up!) will waddle into it (he’s quit skipping and darting – too fat ) and the door will softly close behind his little rat bottom and finally we’ll be able to eyeball each other man-to-man (or perhaps rat-to-man),
The only decisions I will then have to make are:
1. Am I a deadshit for betraying him?
2. Which enemy neighbour’s house will I choose to leave him at?
The only conclusion I can draw from their disappearance was that Raoul was not satisfied with his “Meal: Ready To Eat” rations, and has cast his beady little black eyes further afield.
Or Raoul has a mate.
Bushfire Bill,
During my daughter’s early adolescence we had several pet rats – they were delightful and a lot of fun.
Knowing your love for critters, I’d almost be prepared to wager that you won’t oust Raoul.
What’s more, you will have him eating from your hand soon.
Well, soon-ish.
Confessions, it’s so easy for you to say, but do you realize that’s my nightmare?
When we had Timmy The Cat he came out of retirement to despatch an entire family of rats – one of them “live” on front of us before the television set. One very loud SQUEAK!!!! and it was all over for the poor little guy.
Even last year, Bob caught one of them. I’ve posted the photos before.
But now, Bob’s not only retired, he’s in the retirement home.
Cozzie (our Shi-Tzu-Silky, number #2 dog) might be interested in rats, but he’s an intellectual at heart and would probably try to understand them.
That’s why the trap is on the way this weekend.
I’m so sorry Raoul.
Fiona – HI has stamped her largish feet and told me that unless I get rid of Raoul humanely, she’ll do it inhumanely.
fiona
[Strangely, they didn’t make the contract.]
Tlbd knows about this I think.
My ‘contract’ with the girl was simply that she was too young.
CTar,
I had thought of suggesting that you might have been cradle-snatching, but decided it would be too rude.
OR, Raoul will understand it is a trap and not go anywhere near it.
BB:
I know from bitter experience with rodents; where there’s one there’s likely more. And when you have rodents, you have snakes.
I’m with your HI: enough is enough.
” 2. Which enemy neighbour’s house will I choose to leave him at? ”
Get him the Lib pre-selection for Bennelong. They’ll know what to do with him.
Dear Bushfire,
You are up against Hobson’s, then.
I must admit I was semi-relieved to discover that our little odour problem was a dead cucumber, rather than a dead rodent.
Besides, I rather enjoy feeding the little rat who enjoys our compost bin: to see him/her shimmying down the fence once something has been added to the collection is quite charming.
To everyone who might be interested:
Moi has very small paws.
fiona
She was 15 and had a mean pair of blue shorts.
She would turn up bare footed from next door.
Bean bags on the floor and a few assaults from her but I withstood it.
Me, small hands too.
CTar,
I won’t quote Mae West to you, and I think I should stop typing now!
p://www.alp.org.au/why_i_joined_labor
——————————————————————————–
Student and new Labor member, Brontë Cleary, explains why she joined up to the Labor Party.
After reading Andrew MacLeod’s piece on The Age website about why he left the Labor Party, I found myself reflecting on the reasons I decided to join up in January and, more importantly, why I’m in it for the long haul.
I was born into a family of Labor supporters 19 years ago. Like Andrew MacLeod
found the above on daughters face book,
may be a good story to put on your face book
>>The Catholic Mafia is everywhere.
C@Tmomma,
LOL.
As you know, I didn’t do secondary school here, went to a publc high school in Canada, so it came as quite a shock to me how many private schools we have in Australia…
and it continues to astound and frustrate me how much this Catholic school and church abuse has been covered up by many in the media, police, politics, schools and the church itself.
Does it have something to do with misplaced loyalty on the part of ex-students of these schools and others of this religious persuasion in authority positions?
Seems to me the reporting system and oversight related to child abuse in the Catholic school system has been sorely lacking…yet few seem to be prepared to discuss it. I wonder if it has something to do with the amount of private schoolers in media and politics in Australia.
Furthermore, I am beginning to realise that the multiple layers of supervision and regulation of teacher and student behaviour in the public school system is somewhat beneficial in that abuse claims can make their way to said various levels…even unions can be informed of abuse by another concerned teacher.
Another reason why I am concerned with this obsession of giving too much power to principals and PNCs…we all know that under the LNP oft more religious principals are put in place…and it is oft the CONCERNED FAMILY VALUES CHRISTIAN(S) who dominate the PNC.
For no reason at all, I present this…
Nasking,
I’m a product of the “independent” school system from way back, but I share your concerns
Most concerning is that Australia is way past any other OECD country in its taxpayer funding of the “independent” school system. Apart from that being so inappropriate, it has led to gross inequities that are particularly dangerous and damaging in a country such as ours, with such a small population.